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KeyCreator CAD & CKD Viewer Technical discussion of CAD/CAM and integrated partner products
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Soli - 10/15/2024 3:14:34 PM
   
KeyCreator
KeyCreator it's a great program.
It seems that a group of mechanical engineers have been
working for a long time together with the programmers.
Everything is extremely logical.
I make absolutely no effort to think about what functions
to apply to build my model.
Everything flows naturally.
Primitives and Edit Solid are very powerful.
I especially love Modify>Boolean>Prune>Copy. Save a lot of time.
I don't understand how people work with parametric design.

I work with some engineers who use Solidworks.
We do a lot of meetings through Microsoft Teams.
They are amazed to see how KeyCreator works on my computer.
 
After more than 30 years, I still enjoy working with KeyCreator.
Too bad, not many engineers know about this program.
Kubotek, you did a great job.

Soli
 
Solomon Steinberg,
Israel

DELL OPTIPLEX 7010 Plus,32 Gb
Windows 11
KEYCREATOR 13.5
KEYCREATOR 2024 SP1



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francis.marcoux@ipexna.com - 10/23/2024 10:47:36 AM
   
RE:KeyCreator
I'm using Cadkey/Keycreator for more than 25 years. It alwasy been a good tool and while
I still love using it, to me, to many things are broken.
I'm fighting with the direct editiing functions all the time while others like SpaceClaim and SolidEdge (Synchronous technology) work better. Some blend radius cannot be performed in KC but works in other package. The feature recognition does not recognize properly features or patterns. Layout not always update properly...
I would like to see performance improvements and while sometimes KC is the better tool for the job I have to say that is less and less the case. I wish we can make Keycreator great again.

My 2 cents.
Francis Marcoux
IPEX Technologies
Latest KC version

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Dana - 10/24/2024 7:52:29 AM
   
RE:KeyCreator
I started with Cadkey 2.0 in the mid 1980s.  Now I'm the lone KeyCreator holdout where I work, everybody else uses Inventor.  I'm sure my employer would prefer me to switch but as I'm going to be retiring soon they're not pushing it, Besides, they're probably going to switch to Solidworks both for compatibility with the other company divisions using it as well as PDM integration... and as much as it pains me to admit it, it's probably the right direction to go for those reasons.  But I'll be gone by then. :)

As great as KC is for basic design and importing CAD data, it just doesn't play well with downstream software.  I have to export all my layouts into pdf and step files so the document management system can see them, while it reads and manages Inventor (and Solidworks) drawings directly.

I understand that sketch based parametric modelers have their place, and depending on one's engineering style could even be better... but not for me.  My design approach  tends to be cut and slash; I make large sweeping changes, chop preliminary ideas off and replace them with something completely different, and KC is great for that while a history based modeler would be a nightmare.  OTOH, one of my colleagues takes a very orderly design approach, thinking everything out in advance and making small incremental changes; for him the structured approach of a parametric modeler is better.  We get to the same place in about the same time, but the path is very different.

So soon I'll sail off into the sunset and take my copy of KC with me; I just hope it will continue to exist for me (I use it a lot for my own personal projects) until I'm too old to care.

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Ram - 10/24/2024 9:50:54 AM
   
RE:KeyCreator
Hello Dana,

We appreciate your commitment to KeyCreator over the years.

Your thoughts on the different modeling approaches that KeyCreator takes vs parametric modeling solutions are spot on. Kubotek has stuck to its direct modeling philospophy and truly believes that there are workflows (esp. within the contract manufacturing domain we have been successful in: tool & die, mold design, etc.) where a different approach is simply not effective. This community is a key target that we have been making attempts to grow within and support.

I am curious about a couple of points you made here:

1. In a hybrid CAD environment, does the non-availability of PDM integration risk continued use of KeyCreator within that organization? We are aligned with a couple of partners on PDM integration - so your feedback will help.

2. You indicated that there is an issue with downstream consumption. I understand that your use of STEP and PDF are necessary for the document management system.

A. I am curious as to what the "deliverable" is in your case? A 2D drawing? A 3D model? or a combination of both?

B. Assuming 2 drawing is one of the deliverables, why PDF and not DWG/DXF which is   a more universal than native CAD drawing formats?

C. From a document archival standpoint, isn't it better to archive in a format that future consumers can continue to rely on? (rather than be tied to a specific CAD system's availability to read those files?)

Feel free to reach out by e-mail if you prefer.

Best Regards,
Ram
Ram Eswaran
CTO
Kubotek Kosmos

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Dana - 10/24/2024 11:43:25 AM
   
RE:KeyCreator
Ram wrote:
I am curious about a couple of points you made here:

1. In a hybrid CAD environment, does the non-availability of PDM integration risk continued use of KeyCreator within that organization? We are aligned with a couple of partners on PDM integration - so your feedback will help.

2. You indicated that there is an issue with downstream consumption. I understand that your use of STEP and PDF are necessary for the document management system.

A. I am curious as to what the "deliverable" is in your case? A 2D drawing? A 3D model? or a combination of both?

B. Assuming 2 drawing is one of the deliverables, why PDF and not DWG/DXF which is   a more universal than native CAD drawing formats?

C. From a document archival standpoint, isn't it better to archive in a format that future consumers can continue to rely on? (rather than be tied to a specific CAD system's availability to read those files?)


1.  Yes, we're currently using SmarTeam (which is a Dassault product, one reason for the push to switch to Solidworks.  SmarTeam has "OK" integration with Inventor, but none at all with KC, I had to write my own using Autoit scripts.

2A.  I export a pdf drawing and a corresponding step file from KC and check them into SmarTeam.  The overall KC model, with all the layouts, is also checked into SmarTeam just for backup, but only I can use it.

B.  DWG/DXF sucks, the drawings don't look right, dimensions get screwed up, etc.  PDF is static, but it looks correct when printed.

C.  It would be better, but there really isn't any "standard" format for flat drawings that preserve all the information.  3D models translate pretty well, but properties and such get lost.


The pdfs exported by KC aren't that great, they're essentially just raster images.  A toolmaker can't query it to measure a missing dimension, for example, and (especially on larger drawings) they take a long time to load.  Pdfs exported from other cad systems at least send the fonts over so people can clip copy information out of them.

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Ram - 10/24/2024 12:39:08 PM
   
RE:KeyCreator
Dana wrote:

1.  Yes, we're currently using SmarTeam (which is a Dassault product, one reason for the push to switch to Solidworks.  SmarTeam has "OK" integration with Inventor, but none at all with KC, I had to write my own using Autoit scripts.

2A.  I export a pdf drawing and a corresponding step file from KC and check them into SmarTeam.  The overall KC model, with all the layouts, is also checked into SmarTeam just for backup, but only I can use it.

B.  DWG/DXF sucks, the drawings don't look right, dimensions get screwed up, etc.  PDF is static, but it looks correct when printed.

C.  It would be better, but there really isn't any "standard" format for flat drawings that preserve all the information.  3D models translate pretty well, but properties and such get lost.


The pdfs exported by KC aren't that great, they're essentially just raster images.  A toolmaker can't query it to measure a missing dimension, for example, and (especially on larger drawings) they take a long time to load.  Pdfs exported from other cad systems at least send the fonts over so people can clip copy information out of them.


Thanks Dana. I will likely have some follow up questions and reach out via e-mail.

..Ram

Ram Eswaran
CTO
Kubotek Kosmos

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Ram - 10/24/2024 9:28:12 AM
   
RE:KeyCreator
Hello Francis,

We appreciate the feedback and want to do everything we can to understand the types of problems you are facing.

You may be aware that KeyCreator uses the same (ACIS) modeling engine/kernel as Spaceclaim. Assuming all inputs are the same, we do not expect a difference in outcome.

Solid Edge is based on Parasolid. Both kernels have been around for many years and have their strengths and weaknesses. We have seen several cases over the years where KeyCreator successfully completes an operation where a popular Parasolid based system failed.

Having said that, both Kubotek and our kernel vendor are committed to ensuring that we address any issues that our customers are running into.

Have you reported these issues to tech support? If so, can you please e-mail me (reswaran@kubotekkosmos.com) the issue IDs/ticket numbers so I can review these with my team? I am also open to an on-line meeting with you and one of our AEs if that is of interest to you.

We are especially proud that we have grown our automated regression test suite over the past several years (run every single night) and have committed ourselves to delivering periodic updates to our customer base both to deliver enhancements and fix critical or major issues that our customers have reported. Failures in our regression test suite now block our product releases. Any new issues fixed are added to the same regression test suite.

As a long standing customer I also encourage you to join our beta program so you can help give us early feedback on issues.

Your feedback is very important to us.

Best Regards,
Ram



Ram Eswaran
CTO
Kubotek Kosmos

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Ram - 10/24/2024 9:14:24 AM
   
RE:KeyCreator
Solomon,

We appreciate the positive feedback and are thankful to customers like you have stayed with us through the years!

The KeyCreator community continues to be of utmost importance to Kubotek and we will continue to work hard both to support this community and finds ways to grow it.

Regards,
Ram

Ram Eswaran
CTO
Kubotek Kosmos

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